tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post8894803312835383051..comments2024-03-28T02:46:03.227-04:00Comments on The Historical Society: Pardoning Alan TuringRandallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16755286304057000048noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-65212494183624206412012-02-23T21:46:20.680-05:002012-02-23T21:46:20.680-05:00Correction; "Moreover, I propose that pardoni...Correction; "Moreover, I propose that pardoning the *crime* would be seen..."Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-61244622824824631182012-02-23T21:37:42.701-05:002012-02-23T21:37:42.701-05:00A good post, though I disagree both with the concl...A good post, though I disagree both with the conclusion and the context.<br /><br />If I understand your argument correctly you contend that;<br /><br />1) permitting the crime to remain emphasises its inhumanity by observing its effects (eg Alan Turing)<br /><br />2) pardoning the conviction would induce us to forget the inhumanity of the crime<br /><br />3) we would therefore be more likey to fail to recognise the relevant historical reasoning behind the law, and therefore be less susceptable to avoiding those errors when reasoning out analagous dilema's in modern contexts<br /><br />I hope I've not misrepresented your arguments. My problem is firstly one of perception; in the context of a campaign and demands to pardon him, not to do so highlights more than just the horror of the crime, but also maintains a faint feeling of attack on homosexuality; that the crime itself is not *so* monstrous that we will not abide it on our books (sorry for the double negative...). I hints that some aspect of what he did ie going against the law (regardless of whether the law is just) lends a credence to the idea that the law as it was practiced had some basis in rationality or justice in its socio-political context.<br /><br />Moreover, I propose that pardoning the law would be seen as an attack on the law and by extention the society that propogated it, the society which you say is the entity who should seek pardon.<br /><br />In terms of resting on our laurels, I can't agree here either. I do not believe that because we pardon Turing history teachers are any less likely to teach the horror of his treatment, or that new computer scientists will be less intrigued to find out about his life. I certainly doubt that the Gay Rights acitivsts will drop one of its talismanic figures in proving the worth of gays in history - for one the existence of Gay History Month in the UK will not forget.<br /><br />We see for example that David Cameron the Prime Minister made an election promise that he would erase the criminal records of those still living with "indecency" or sodomy convictions. <br /><br />http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/04/10/exclusive-conservatives-to-quash-convictions-of-those-found-guilty-now-lawful-gay-sex/<br /><br />The inability to transpose the mindset of the past injustices to those of the present are unlikely to occur soon in any case when in this global situation we still have so many reminders. From Uganda, to St Petersburg, from California to the Middle East, we need keep reminders of the past injustices far less than we need to attack utterly the suggestion that such laws are permissible in any context. Even if you are right, and in doing so we pardon ourselves then this silly indulgence is worth far less than the excoriation by comparison and extension that we land on the those oppressing the Turings of today.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-88127202837104116792012-02-20T12:54:44.709-05:002012-02-20T12:54:44.709-05:00Interesting point, Steven.
It seems to me the ha...Interesting point, Steven. <br /><br />It seems to me the harm is in letting modern day participants feel their work is done simply by supporting such an easy thing. In my past courses, I discovered that students invariably claimed to be horrified by nineteenth-century racism, on which they blamed, for example, the Indian Removal Act. I would receive impassioned essays about how appalling the Trail of Tears was, and how THEY would never have permitted anything like that to happen. So I started to teach the Removal Act along with the Inuit Council's lawsuit against the Bush administration for destroying the environment on which their culture was based. Almost all the same students who recoiled from the Indian Removal Act would dismiss the lawsuit in disgust, insisting that it was stupid to try to stand in the way of progress. They had to be reminded that their arguments mirrored those of the proponents of Indian Removal. <br /><br />Hence my stand on Turing's pardon. It will permit people today to pat themselves on the back for opposing homophobia, and then to keep quiet about continuing practices and laws that threaten today's Turings.<br /><br />Now, whether it continues to harm the great man himself that he remains convicted of a crime... that, it seems to me, is a valid place for much debate. What is the relationship between man, present, memory, and history? Not entirely sure how I would come out on the question, to be honest.hcrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07334093881332383848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-17581698655191222292012-02-20T08:41:02.205-05:002012-02-20T08:41:02.205-05:00Your point about the unjust law is well taken, but...Your point about the unjust law is well taken, but it does not alter the fact that Turning remains convicted of a crime. A pardon would remedy at that portion of the injustice he suffered. An apology is all very well, but we could stop compounding his injury. What's the harm?Steven Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220335740297514556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-49651110388824477702012-02-20T08:24:40.360-05:002012-02-20T08:24:40.360-05:00Magnificent analysis. I have highlighted your fin...Magnificent analysis. I have highlighted your fine post here<br /><br />http://www.samefacts.com/2012/02/britain/alan-turing-needs-no-pardon/Keith Humphreyshttp://www.samefacts.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-55586154879665699462012-02-19T16:46:04.642-05:002012-02-19T16:46:04.642-05:00It does seem like pardoning Turing for being a vic...It does seem like pardoning Turing for being a victim would be a mistake. Maybe Germany should pardon the Auschwitz victims, too? Then we wouldn't have to ask ourselves how our apparently civilized grandparents were able to justify this to themselves. Or to look away.dan allossohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10733670017382794923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7872819010848426693.post-45394816079128210892012-02-19T02:31:43.074-05:002012-02-19T02:31:43.074-05:00Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.L.D. Burnetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030486794964584014noreply@blogger.com